Of course, I’m very Lockean in my political philosophy. [At which point Steve may burn me down. ]

For a secular nation like the USA, I figure we go with the expressed will of the majority, like we do with most everything else, with necessary limitations on that power [and there are expressed limits on who can be executed for capital crimes].

I’ll admit that I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this: my friend’s father was executed a couple years ago [he did commit the crime, but he really wasn't the ringleader; I'm okay with Mr. Brown having a life sentence, but not the DP], and I also had a cousin who was accused of capital murder [and later acquitted].

Geof: Now that I think about it, the next logical question wouldn’t be “is abortion justified.” But rather, “is the taking of life ever justified.” So I’d have to amend the statement in my original post.

Right. While I buy that it was appropriate in Biblical situations, I’m not wholly sure that it’s applicable to our fundamentally secular nation-state.

That said, I’m willing to abide by the wishes of the majority. That states routinely go in and out of the ranks of those allowing capital punishment shows that Americans are willing to change their minds about this…

Geof: Now that I think about it, the next logical question wouldn’t be “is abortion justified.” But rather, “is the taking of life ever justified.” So I’d have to amend the statement in my original post.

Charles: So are you saying that I secretly miss AYOR?

Roger: Well, I honestly have not given the issue you raised thorough thought, but it seems that it hinges on what your operational definition of “innocent” is. It seems there are different types of innocence and guilt. We are guilty before God, and deserve eternal separation, but have not all committed crimes that demand physical death at the hands of other people (as dictated by both civil law as well as God’s)

I’ll have to think that one out a little more.

i should add that i didn’t mean to lump geof in with the libs.

It’s okay. It’s not necessarily untrue.

but to the extent that liberal christians routinely pit Jesus’ words against the God of the OT, the apostle paul and even some of Jesus’ other words and actions (which are judged by them to be “inauthentic”) – i would make no apologies for my simplification of their position.